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[370]"The walls of Sparta were its young men, and its borders the points of their spears."

Discussion in 'Building Critiques' started by Beef, May 1, 2012.

  1. Beef

    Beef ก็็็็็็็็็็็็็ʕ•͡ᴥ•ʔ ก้้้้้้้้้้้ Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,054
    So says King Agesilaus.

    In King Arthur's Gold however, the walls of both blue and red are "Slab" towers. Large, thick, mountains of stone.

    slab yo.png

    In this thread, I will propose a different form of defence, one based on giving full advantages to the defender, rather than simply preventing the attacker from reaching the flag. More over, most tower designs are built to give advantages to our long ranged friends, the archer. The knight is quite often left with a treacherous tower to attack from, providing no advantages but a host of disadvantages.

    To correct this, I attempted to build a Knight Friendly Tower. I began by considering the various advantages a knight can have in combat, and then attempting to incorporate these into a tower design. In no particular order; Height, surprise, darkness (if you're familiar with the terrain and they are not), bombs and numbers.

    With these concerns in mind;

    walls are for pussies.png

    This design gives a defending knight the full advantage of darkness (due to cover), multiple angle attacks from trap bridges (which gives the advantages of both height and more room for manoeuvres) and several easy retreat routes. I could think of no way to give even more of an advantage with numbers and bombs, apart from preventing retreat.


    This is by no means a completed artefact. Ideally, there'd be a slab tower in front that prevents anyone from getting back out, and neither the archer tower nor spike pit (suitably trap bridged, of course) are in place. Also, the rear should be more built up, but this is simply an example.

    I'll be the first to admit this design isn't perfect. It has a huge vulnerability to bombs, for instance. One bomb can transform four of those bridges into neutral bridges, allowing the enemy more room. It also takes a huge amount of resources to build, and is hilariously unlikely to see use on any server with pub players.

    That said, the broken bridges won't make a whole lot of difference in combat (due to it being unlikely that all bridges will be turned), the resources won't be a problem so long as it's built in the warm up, and playing with pubs is the cost of playing online.

    Thoughts, criticisms?
     
    Froghead48, Blueboy23, Gofio and 8 others like this.
  2. Chinizz

    Chinizz Arsonist

    Messages:
    573
    It is nicely thinked to use spike pit with darkness. I've used to build dark spike trap in castle, and it is pretty deadly for unprudent knight.
     
  3. killatron46

    killatron46 Cata Whore Donator
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]

    Messages:
    808
    Well this is interesting, good idea Beef!

    Like you pointed out, it is vulnerable to bombs but not as vulnerable as you would think, the bridges effectively block a lot of the bombs' damage. I'm guessing you would also have the floor covered with stone to prevent diggers? How will you keep your team out of the spike pit? Overall it is a very nice design. :)


    The only other building I can think of that has ever been specifically designed to assist knights is this one found here.
    [​IMG]
    Doesn't work as good anymore, as you can't jump up through it like you could in previous builds.
     
    Gofio and inactive_account like this.
  4. Kater

    Kater Horde Gibber

    Messages:
    150
    I like this Even more than Xlayers :thumbs_up:
     
  5. fishfinger73

    fishfinger73 Haxor

    Messages:
    185
    Nice, but my only problem is the time that it takes up to build. It uses up a lot of room too and other players might mess up the design since they don't know what you're building. It's great though and you'll need constant repairs IF bombs damage it too much. Well thought, A+ for you :D.

    EDIT: Watch out for enemy builders messing this building up too much.
     
  6. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    Have 2 layers of spikes, , what you want is a sandwich:
    :spikes:
    :bridge: <- Broken trapbridge
    :spikes:
    :castle_wall:

    This will eat some of the bombs and still kill them as a spike pit.
     
  7. Ghozt

    Ghozt Haxor

    Messages:
    1,083
    Bow one of the main problems you talk about are bombs, now completely forgetting pubs, this could be maximized for minimal wood in places.

    No what I thought would be to get rid of a few layers if trap doors at the bottom and make the bottom row a launch pad, so this way at max you could only destroy 1-2 trap bridges, the knights could also have trouble reaching the trap bridges.

    Someone also said something about xslayers wall, now this could be incorporated with the whole bottom being lit up, and you have xslayers wall to climb up swell as the trap bridges, but now the attention is diverted to the climbable wall, with insta-death at the top, this would also be better without team doors at the top, so they think it is an opening.

    Nice original idea, and when I have some time (on my phone ATM) I will experiment with this, just some confronting critsicm, hope you take it, Ghozt.

    Sorry about the mistakes, my phone changes words.
     
    fishfinger73, BlueLuigi and Beef like this.
  8. Miauw62

    Miauw62 Shipwright

    Messages:
    416
    This is quite a nice idea, could be fitted between two towers, with the frontmost one a few blocks away, acting as a spikepit, and after the first tower falls acting as a knight tower!
     
    Ghozt likes this.
  9. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    thought this was interesting, sorry for outatopic, but: EXPLAIN!
    I WANNA KNOW THIS!
     
  10. fishfinger73

    fishfinger73 Haxor

    Messages:
    185
    I too, don't understand how it works :huh?:. You said it 'eats' bombs and still kills 'them'. Could you be a bit more specific on how this works?
     
  11. Ghozt

    Ghozt Haxor

    Messages:
    1,083
    Just to inform you guys, bombs do not carry their power/damage through trap doors, so an extremely good builder can stop a bomb from above his head. I first saw this done when Strathos placed a trap door above his head, when I thought he was a goner, survived amazingly.
    Also isn't this thread a bit old?
     
  12. fishfinger73

    fishfinger73 Haxor

    Messages:
    185
    No, the thread states [370]. Interesting stuff, Ghozt.
     
    Ghozt likes this.
  13. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    The bridge takes a lot of damage out of the bomb blast so that it won't really break the top spikes, it will hurt the bridge and break the bottom spikes though, so that the top spike does hurt them as it is now on broken bridge and still good.
    It can take a second hit before it goes down I believe, will do more testing due to the current radius behavior of bombs being all broken and stuff.
     
    Beef and Ghozt like this.
  14. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    THAT. IS. AWESOME.!
     
  15. Bunnyboy

    Bunnyboy Haxor

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    599
    You might want to get rid of the tree to the left so archers can't climb over.
     
  16. Fate

    Fate Studying seashells

    Messages:
    593
    Actually trees are great. They prevent the placing of ladders and the like. If the tower is well-defended, an incoming archer can be well picked off my friendlies as well. I'd rather have an archer in our base than a builder and knight.
     
  17. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    also, if you have a bugged tree,(the top hits a ladder or bridge) by cutting the lowest part the tree will go down, but the leaves will keep reapearing, and they dont dissapear! makes for wonderfull hidingspots!
     
    Fate likes this.
  18. MCrypa

    MCrypa Haxor

    Messages:
    562
    Nice idea overall.
    BUT,
    As you know, when enemies are near, the trapbridge will close, thus making it impossible for anyone to stand on it.
    If you are fighting an enemy knight, most of the trapbridges around him will be closed + he is probably jumping, making it hard to retreat. Since you can't stand on it while it's closed, you probably won't get another shot at an arial assualt. If a nooby knight manages to kill someone in the trapbridge part, the trapbridges won't open until everyone leaves the area. This can be incredibly annoying, especially if you are two (or more) people: One is noob(Standing still, not listening) and the other is trying to get back. (This can lead to problems with the spiketrap as well) Also, it makes it vulnerable to attacks in rapid session. However, if the trapbridge part where to be bigger, none of the above mentioned problems would occur.

    Main point: It's not very effective if the building is tiny.

    EDIT: I like your mustache ;)
     
    Chinizz and Beef like this.
  19. 8x

    8x Elimination Et Choix Traduisant la Realité Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    1,325
    I like this ideas but unfortunately I hadnt read this before.
    Two things here:

    1.Traps in darkness (in places nobody expects to find one) > clever usage of darkness > playing with enemy's awareness
    - This is pretty nice, I'd like to see more simple and effective traps ingame, where builders spam bottomless pits here and there. Usually when you die in one of those traps, you learn it and avoid it afterwards, so maybe you spare just 1 ticket, plus one ticket per each of your forward pushing pals it makes something.

    2.Giving apparent advantage to the enemies > they think they found a way thru > playing with enemy's awarness
    - I do like this, it's worth building if you're aware of what you have to do when a horde of enemies gained this advantage (placing sudden spikes thru a door, block with stone, spam arrows on enemies standing on ladders...)

    Something i like is to do slight changes in the enemy's castles: I replace 1 trap bridge inside their whole bridge, i dont delete their doors but put spikes close to them, as if they were actually griefed, on a wall full of trapbridges i replace 1 and put an auto spike on it and añways trying to leave no trace... I think this way of trapping is connected with that idea of giving advantage. The traps that ive been more proud of are those ones...
     
    Beef likes this.
  20. I like this design. I use that vault door entrance thing. But every fucking noob ruins it by destroying the stone block and cuts down the trees. Puts trap doors over it.