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Bring Beta Modding To Classic

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Microsoft, Dec 9, 2013.

  1. Microsoft

    Microsoft Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    19
    Beta modding is sick but I was wondering if the Dev can bring the modding ability to Classic. We can make big and better mods on Classic :). I would love to have more modding abilities in Classic!
     
  2. Kouji

    Kouji Cold, Uncaring, Sadistic, Evil and Cruel Meanie Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. REKINS OF SEAS: Super Crew of Ultimate Havoking 2: Return of King of KAG: Chapter 420blazeit - REKIN

    Messages:
    2,910
    I can tell you right now that it's not happening. If it was possible to have Beta Modding in Classic, the Beta branch wouldn't have been made in the first place.
     
  3. Superblackcat

    Superblackcat baideist baide Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    462
    (Or you could buy beta ;) )
     
  4. link6155

    link6155 Haxor Staff Alumni Tester Official Server Admin
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    534
    Wishful thinkings ::P:

    Just buy the beta. I think it's better than classic overall, it's worth your $$$
     
    Guitarman likes this.
  5. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    Great idea! Let's bring back modding to the crappy broken old game instead of perfecting the nice, fluid new one that already has modding support fully integrated! +1 rep thumbs up.
     
  6. Aphelion

    Aphelion Wunderkind Donator
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    180
    It would mean rewriting classic. Way too much work for the devs.
     
  7. windwizard999

    windwizard999 Haxor

    Messages:
    40
    Because I love classicand enjoy it more than Beta, I would like to have beta modding in classic. But Aphelion3371 was right, it would be way too much work for the devs.
     
  8. link6155

    link6155 Haxor Staff Alumni Tester Official Server Admin
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    534
    KAG Beta is basically the rewrite of KAG Classic to be better, and it certainly is better, both gameplay and modding.
     
  9. windwizard999

    windwizard999 Haxor

    Messages:
    40
    I will like Beta better when KARPS comes out :D
     
    Guitarman likes this.
  10. hierbo

    hierbo Ballista Bolt Thrower
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    190
    I think it would actually be possible to emulate the gameplay of the alpha build of KAG in the current KAG build using modding. Have you considered that approach?

    KAG Throwback Mod(TM)
     
  11. Rocinante

    Rocinante Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    133
    Curiously, when @BC and I were ballsing around in the Zen server we discovered that altering the gravity value to something like 12 or 10 made the vertical movement "feel" more like classic. So yeah definitely something worth exploring, @hierbo, but incrementally.
     
    hierbo likes this.
  12. Aphelion

    Aphelion Wunderkind Donator
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    180
    I'll make it.
     
    Guitarman and hierbo like this.
  13. JoshTG

    JoshTG Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    236
    If you could make a classic mod for beta, that makes all classes how they were in classic ( no grapple, no water ammo, etc.. ) id literally send you money.
     
    Guitarman likes this.
  14. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    Whoa aph, that sounds like an offer nobody can refuse XD
     
  15. Take note that you have to emulate Classic physics together with the textures. Plus the code is a bit messy.
     
  16. Contrary

    Contrary The Audacious Paramount of Explosive Flight Donator Tester

    Messages:
    2,196
    Geti said that emulating classic in beta is nearly impossible due to the fact that classic's gameplay was comprised mainly of flukes, quirks, and glitches.
     
  17. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    yeah but getis dumb man

    geez its like u dont no that or somethin
     
    Beelzebub likes this.
  18. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    It's possible to do it in the new engine, you'll just have to replicate all of those flukes, quirks and glitches.

    Eg: if you want out-of-the-box classic movement, you're going to have to forego using forces at all and just set the velocity, have a few hardcoded caps on things and therefore completely break trampolines, getting pushed around by boats, bombjumping, arrow knockback, and so on. Notching will be a side effect of this style of movement.
    Eg: if you want out-of-the-box classic knight combat, you're going to have to check a box in front of the player for enemies, set their knockback flag in that spot, hit them in there and then set the knockback flag again in the "on hit" callback so you get double-stunned with lag. Also set a counter upon hitting someone with a slash, and then allow another slash if action1 is set in that timer in some completely separate part of the logic. Of course, you want to re-use the actual attack-charge timer for this to save 4 bytes and make it impossible to track what sort of attack you're doing, so then add a boolean flag for whether you're double-slashing anyway (stored as 4 bytes).
    Eg: if you want out-of-the-box classic fall damage you're going to have to kill the character based on how long they've been off the ground instead of their downwards velocity.

    and so on.
     
    Chrispin and BlueLuigi like this.
  19. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    Wow classic really sucked.
     
  20. hierbo

    hierbo Ballista Bolt Thrower
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    190
    I think that may be a little extreme.

    You'd be surprised how many games have very little in the way of a physics system in the form that most people imagine it. Oftentimes, developers will intentionally forgo putting in in the physics systems like those, due to their high overhead, and instead just code each interaction manually. That may sound far more tedious than using an out-of-the-box physics engine like box2d, and is, but they made it themselves, it does exactly what they want (at the time), and nothing else. Unfortunately, that method can be very restrictive; if you want to change how something works, it may be the result of an inscrutable tangle of interrelated rules you put together, thereby causing all manner of crazy side effects that you could not have foreseen from only a minor tweak. In fact, I believe I recall reading somewhere that this very issue was the reason they decided to rewrite large parts of this game (probably after much profanity); it was just no longer able to be extended upon in they ways they wanted to.
     
    Guitarman likes this.